Zachary Cartwright [00:00:06]:
What is it like working with entrepreneurs who have a million dollar idea but don't know anything about how new food products are brought to market? And what is it like going into a food science consulting career instead of working directly for a food company? Welcome to the Drip where we keep your mind hydrated with some science music and a mantra. I'm your host, Zachary Cartwright. As the lead food scientist at AQUALAB by Addium, I often work directly with food science consultants to give them the tools or insights they need in order to help their clients overcome a variety of moisture related challenges in all steps of the food production process. To better understand the life of a food science consultant, our guest today is Rachel Zemser who has been a lifelong food scientist. Unlike many food scientists who transfer into food science later into life, including myself. Rachel started out in food science her freshman year at the University of Massachusetts Amherst and ended it with her master's in food science from the University of Illinois. Later on she went into culinary school in New York City while working at Lipton in New Jersey. And today she is both a certified food scientist and certified culinary scientist.

Zachary Cartwright [00:01:20]:
Let's learn from Rachel about what it takes to be a food science consultant. Hi Rachel, thank you so much for being here today. What exactly is a food science consultant?

Rachel Zemser [00:01:33]:
A person like myself or it could be a larger company scientists who are hired by food companies to help formulate their food products. A lot of big companies have their own internal teams like Kraft or Unilever. They have many of their own food scientists. Smaller company might not have their own team of food scientists. So they would hire a consultant to help them through the process, whatever stages they need help with.

Zachary Cartwright [00:02:01]:
And I understand you worked for some big companies in the past. Why did this influence you to start helping some smaller food companies?

Rachel Zemser [00:02:08]:
I didn't plan to be a food scientist. That wasn't my original thought out goal. I originally degreed in food science and wanted to be a food scientist. So in my early days I got a job with some pretty big food companies, including Unilever. And in retrospect I think it's really important to for all scientists who are starting out to work directly for a big food company because they have lots of experienced people there that you can learn from, mentors and you know, they, they often have, have seen it all, they've done it all. I did my time in the big food companies, but I realized pretty early on that I was not a very corporate. I often got in trouble for saying the wrong time. I didn't know how to Play the political game.

Rachel Zemser [00:02:57]:
And I realized that I was going to work independently and not have to answer to higher ups anymore. Ended up as a consultant. That naturally led to, to smaller companies, there's pros and cons. To bigger come smaller companies. There's, you know, smaller companies work a lot faster, they're energetic. A larger company might have a lot of roadblocks that they have to pass through in order to get from level one to level two to level three. But just in general, my falling into a consultancy type job has resulted in my working with smaller companies. I definitely tend to work more with smaller companies than larger companies because that's the typical nature of being a food science consultant.

Zachary Cartwright [00:03:43]:
And as you work with some of these smaller companies and definitely entrepreneurs, what are some of the major challenges that you face, especially if they don't come from the food industry world?

Rachel Zemser [00:03:53]:
Small companies, startups, they really don't know how things are done and the rules that are involved in bringing a food product market and the order in which these tasks have to be done. I actually wrote a book in 2013 called the Food Business Toolkit for Entrepreneurs to give the smaller companies the guidance that they need to move forward with bringing a product to market so they wouldn't just try to jump ahead and skip shelf life or not understand regulatory compliance, food safety rules. I tried to cover all of that in the guide that I wrote. But in general that's one of the biggest challenges is that they really have to have their handheld from beginning to end. Everything has to be explained to them, all the whys. It's sort of like, it's like my six year old son. Everything is a why. The same with small companies.

Rachel Zemser [00:04:40]:
Like, because they've never, unlike a large company, they haven't experienced the day to day process of bringing a food product to market. So it's all completely new territory for them, brand new. It's not intuitive, it's not information that's out there on the Internet. It's they really need an experienced food scientist to fill them in.

Zachary Cartwright [00:04:59]:
Yeah, I see that a lot as well. Sometimes I give guest lectures to the Better Process Control School here in Washington State. And, and you're right, there's just so much information out there, but there's nobody that kind of walks you step by step. And that's why people need consultants like, like you to really help go from start to finish. You mentioned some of the common hurdles like shelf life testing and maybe labeling. But what are some other common hurdles that companies you work with are trying to overcome?

Rachel Zemser [00:05:26]:
So Typically, especially small companies, entrepreneurs, they always have a dream to make a product that's better than other products that they've seen on the market. So they see things that are put out by large companies, by Nestle, by Kraft, by all the big companies, and they look at the ingredient statements and they say, oh, I can, I don't, I can make my product so much better. And I don't need to put in all of those preservatives. I don't need to add in all those ingredients, can't pronounce. But what they don't understand is there's a reason why the larger companies put all of those ingredients in there. And it wasn't just, you know, because they're a big company and they're trying to be evil and save money and cost reduce. I mean, that is the case in some scenarios, but for the most part, there's, there's usually a pretty good reason of the ingredients that are in the product. And a entrepreneur will typically try to create something where they can avoid using special ingredients or preservatives or things that can't be pronounced.

Rachel Zemser [00:06:23]:
And that ends up being a hurdle as it relates to shelf life, as it relates to labeling the product, naming it, being in compliance with regulatory, being in compliance with all food safety regulations. They can't do whatever they want. And they learn that pretty quickly once they begin the R and D process. I mean, a big hurdle, as you know, is keeping water activity low while managing sugar and salt levels. You know, that's, it's a vicious cycle trying to taste great, but also keeping, if it's going to be a shelf stable product, keeping that water activity low, but also managing how much sugar or salt is going to go in there. Because they may not want that much sugar or salt to go in, but yet they have no choice because to be shelf stable. So typical hurdles usually stem from actually understanding why the big companies do what they do.

Zachary Cartwright [00:07:14]:
And I know you've worked on a really wide range of consulting inquiries, but there's just a few that I thought our listeners would find interesting that I wanted to ask you about today. So the first one is how do you create a nutrition bar?

Rachel Zemser [00:07:27]:
I mean, creating a nutrition bar, like any product, involves at some point getting on the bench and actually weighing out ingredients with your hands and smushing it together into a mold. But before we even get to that step, there's a lot of questions and discussions that have to take place between the food scientist and the, the company founder, the entrepreneur, the brand. And the first is what does that client want to bring to market? What ingredients do they want in there? What ingredients do they not want in there? What nutritional metrics do they want to hit? Like how high of a protein, how low in sugar, how much salt? What is the overall nutritional goal of this bar? And a nutrition bar usually has a nutritional goal. It's usually not just, hey, this is a great snack because I'm hungry. There's usually some sort of reason behind it. A dream, a plan, an idea. So these are all of the typical questions that have to be addressed. First, the nutritional metrics.

Rachel Zemser [00:08:23]:
What flavors do they want? Will you want the bar to have big inclusions or small inclusions? Do you want it to be made via method, where it comes out of sort of like almost like a meat grinder? Or do you want it to be slabbed, where it's pushed out of a chute and then multiple rollers flatten it out, but yet you still have particulate identity that's more of like the slab method, whereas the extrusion method basically turns your bar into a big block of like cement, small particulates. So all of these questions have to be addressed and it's really important that the entrepreneur, before they even begin, they take a look at what's on the market, what is similar to what they want, and then at least they kind of have a, a strong point to go from. I want my bar to be sort of like this. I want it to have this kind of a flavor profile. I want it to be shelf stable, I want it to be refrigerated. They have to really think about all of these different questions before jumping in. And then it's just a matter of selecting the ingredients, finding the ingredients and getting on the bench and making up those prototypes.

Zachary Cartwright [00:09:26]:
And when it comes to sourcing ingredients, what are your recommendations on that process? Because, you know, I attend lots of different food conferences and things and there are so many different suppliers of ingredients. And I'm wondering, what are your recommendations in order to find the right suppliers and source the ingredients you need to make a successful product.

Rachel Zemser [00:09:46]:
So whenever possible, and this usually doesn't happen because an entrepreneur will often spend months working on the product in their garage. It's really important that if you haven't done anything yet to start off with ingredients from legitimate suppliers, meaning the suppliers that can provide all the proper documentation to your potential future co packer, or whether it's even to yourself, someone's going to make this product in a commercial kitchen of some sort. So that's really important. Starting with legitimate suppliers that can provide paperwork like specifications, nutritionals, country of origin, allergen, how good that ingredient is going to be good for, what is the shelf life of that ingredient, how that ingredient should be stored. The co packer is going to need all that information on file. Like legally they have to have it all in place. So starting with legit suppliers is really important. Work with retail ingredients from the supermarket because you don't know how they're made, where they came from, what the shelf life is on it.

Rachel Zemser [00:10:45]:
If it's been altered in some way by a separate process. You want to work directly with ingredients from the supplier. There's a few things that you can get from the store. You can get your vegetable oil, you could maybe get water, you could probably get coconut oil and maybe even some spices. Not spice blends, but individual spices. But even that's a little iffy because they might not be as fresh as what you're clear from the manufacturer when it comes time for production. And then that could alter the whole flavor profile of your product. And it is very tricky walking around the trade show floor.

Rachel Zemser [00:11:19]:
You have so many choices. There's often multiple suppliers for the same ingredient and there really is no right or wrong. There's just decisions that have to be made. Like where is your co packer located? If you're in California, do you want to buy your almonds from California or do you want to get it from a broker who's selling it out of New Jersey? You probably want to get it from California because that's going to be closer to you. Who packages it in the pack size that fits best for what you need. Do you want a 50 pound bag? So all of these factors have to be considered, all of the logistical considerations as well as all the safety, paperwork, regulatory and so on.

Zachary Cartwright [00:11:54]:
And several times there you mentioned a co packer. What exactly is a co packer and what is the process of finding the right one?

Rachel Zemser [00:12:01]:
A co packer is basically a manufacturer that is going to make the product for the person who has the product that needs to be made. And you know, some co packers only make products for their own company. So a food company might have their own co packer and they only make their own products. But many co packers will make products for many people. So you go to them and co packer that makes the kind of product that you want to make, whether it's nutrition bars or baked goods or canned soups, whatever it might be, you want to find the co packer that does that kind of work already. And you Bring them your concept and you say, I would like you to make my product. Now when, when you get to that co packer, they're going to expect your formula to be not necessarily 100% ready for them, but at least written up in a way that they can connect with it and say, oh yeah, like this is something that we can make or this is something we cannot make for whatever reason. So those discussions would, would have to be had.

Rachel Zemser [00:13:02]:
And that's part of the process is you find the co packer, you have conversations with them, you understand, can they do what you want them to do, what is their minimum order quantity, how much are they going to expect you to produce in any given day? Do they want you to make a million units a year or do they want you to make 10 million units a year? And that all is going to tie into your potential sales, what stores you're planning on entering into. And it's a tricky stage for the entrepreneur that's brand new and they don't know how their sales are going to be. And at that point they're going to want to find a co packer that might not expect them to make, you know, millions and millions of units. Maybe they can make, you know, 300,000 units, but they're not going to find anyone who's going to make them like 100 units or 200 units because no co packer is going to benefit financially from an arrangement like that. So, so you want to find that co packer, how do you find them? You ask around at trade shows, you network in the industry, you ask your food scientist to help you find one. And there's a few search engines out there too. There's one called Partner Slate which charges a small fee to help you find your co packer. And there's another website I learned about recently called Keychain.

Rachel Zemser [00:14:14]:
And they're also a good resource to help find potential co packers. And you really want to make sure you get off on a good foot with them. You reach out to them, you want to make sure that they're helpful, they take your call, they're willing to meet with you. If they're not friendly or they don't get back to you, then that's not always a good sign. You definitely want to visit that co packer, make sure that they're clean and sanitary. And if you don't have the skills to really recognize whether a facility is clean and sanitary, you want to hire a professional plant auditor. You can hire them on your behalf to tell you if this plant is Clean or dirty, but even just a quick walkthrough by you, just as a regular person, you can walk into a facility and if it looks dirty, if the bathrooms look dirty, if no one's wearing hair nets, that's never a good sign. So it's definitely important just to make sure who you're basically working with, their behavior, their cleanliness and so on.

Zachary Cartwright [00:15:08]:
And when it comes to some of the shelf stable foods that you consult on, what are some of the measurements or parameters that you're looking to control? The first one I want to ask you about is acidity and ph. Why is this important to measure for product safety and quality?

Rachel Zemser [00:15:26]:
So acidity and ph are very, very important, crucial measurable attributes that dictate if a product, usually a wet or a liquid, can be made shelf stable via pasteurization specifically. So you mentioned better processing school earlier. This is a required class for people who are making acid controlled food products. Or it's going to be an acidified food, meaning they're going to force that acid down with added acid, or a naturally acidic food that is already naturally acidic because of the fruit or vegetable ingredients that are that are in there. So if that ph is low enough naturally, then the product qualifies as an acid food. If it has to be pushed down, it is an acidified food. But in both cases the product does have to be pasteurized because acidity ph is not enough to prevent food spoilage. It's going to prevent food safety issues like salmonella, E.

Rachel Zemser [00:16:22]:
Coli and so on. But obviously you don't want to have a product that is moldy or yeasty and acidic products can still mold. All you have to do is look at the oranges that you didn't handle at home properly and you left them, you know, in the fruit bowl too long and you're going to, the mold is growing on there and, and obviously oranges are acidic. So acidity is not going to save you. People think that they can avoid patient by just adding more acid and that's not the case. You still have to pasteurize it. But pasteurization temperature is all going to be dictated by the ph of the product. So the higher the ph, the less pasteurization.

Rachel Zemser [00:16:58]:
You have to pick your poison. Is it going to be acid or is it going to be heat? It's going to be one or the other or a combination of both. And that's important for shelf stability. That is, once you heat that product at the right time and temperature based on that ph, it is going to be commercially sterile. After it's been pasteurized. If you don't want to pasteurize your product, you can always sell as a refrigerated product which is going to have a shorter shelf life and eventually get moldy. So that's an option as well. If people don't want to add acid or they don't want to add heat, sell it refrigerated and deal with the three or the four week shelf life.

Zachary Cartwright [00:17:33]:
And in addition to ph control, I always like to ask consultants what is the importance of water activity with the clients that you have worked with in the past?

Rachel Zemser [00:17:42]:
Water activity is an extremely important measurement that is related to shelf stable products that are not wet. Unlike acidification ph control, which is more related to wet products that are going to be sealed up anaerobically. Water activity is related to products that are going to be dry beef jerky, nutrition bars, baked goods, cakes, cookies. These have to have a water activity well under 0.65 because at that point underneath 0.65, that's when the yeast will no longer be supported by the amount of water in the system. However, 0.85, a much higher water activity is important to ensure that no botulism is going to grow. There's different levels on the, on the water activity scale. Once you get below 0.85, you're not going to die from it. Once you get below 0.65, you're not going to get any yeast or mold growing.

Rachel Zemser [00:18:39]:
And it's really important that you know, water activity is taken into consideration. It's, it's a must have tool for every food scientist, whether it's a, that's making dry baked type products. I mean there's also moisture, which is another kind of measurement. And moisture. I always tell my, my clients that water activity and moisture, it's not really a linear equation. It's not like the more moisture you have, the higher water activity you're going to have because a lot of that moisture may be bound up. But on the amount of sugar and salt in the system, I. E.

Rachel Zemser [00:19:13]:
Salt if it's a beef jerky, I. E. Sugar if it's a nutrition bar or a baked good. So you know, a, a brownie can have a, two brownies can have equal moisture contents. But if one brownie is sugar free, it's going to get moldy. If the other brownie is full of sugar, it's not going to get moldy. So water activity very, very important, a must have tool for every food lab making dry products.

Zachary Cartwright [00:19:37]:
Are there any topics that we missed Today. Anything else that you wanted to bring up to our listeners to really help them understand the things that you do as a food consultant? I know we touched on a lot of different things today, but anything else that you wanted to add about your job and the things that you do?

Rachel Zemser [00:19:52]:
Yeah, I mean, I think that for anyone who wants to be a consultant or who wants to leave their full time, you know, nine to five regular food science job to get going to being a consultant, they really have to be prepared for all food science challenges that are going to come their way. And that means being very well versed in the rules, the food safety rules and regulations of all different kinds of products. I mean, I mostly work on nutrition bars and beverages, but if I get a beef jerky project coming my way, I need to be prepared. If I get a chewing project coming my way that I choose to accept and be hired for, I need to be ready to understand how chewing gum is being made. And it's, it's just really important that a consultant understands that they have to really decide if they're going to take on certain projects and if they have the expertise and the knowledge in that space. I've turned down jobs before that I'm not qualified to do so because I just don't have years of experience in a certain space. I mean, sure, I could, I could learn it, I could read a few books, I could look online. But it's not the same as having, you know, experience where you've really seen what can and can't happen in certain scenarios related to certain kinds of food.

Rachel Zemser [00:21:14]:
Nothing really beats having that level of experience or knowledge than working in that particular food space. So I think, I think that's really important. And I think it's also important that a food science consultant can really manage a client's expectations. I have a lot of clients who come to me with ideas that I know that it's just not going to be possible for them to do this for whatever reason. Maybe it's going to be too expensive, or maybe the particular ingredient that they want to use is not available from legitimate suppliers and they're just not going to be able to manufacture it in a way that won't make them any money, or maybe it's just not going to be something that can be made shelf stable, the product won't lend itself to it or being dried out. And it's really important to let the clients know right from the get go in an initial conversation before they even hire you. If you think that, that there's that their product really has any hope of actually happening and what has to be changed to make sure that they can make that product work. And making that change may involve being just like everybody else that they don't want to be like.

Rachel Zemser [00:22:23]:
And they might need that reality kick to save them from spending millions of dollars on bringing a product to market. That's just never going to happen.

Zachary Cartwright [00:22:32]:
And if there is an entrepreneur listening, or even a food scientist listening, thinking about becoming a consultant, and they want to speak with you more, what's the best way for people to reach out to you for your services or for your insights?

Rachel Zemser [00:22:44]:
They can go to my website, a la carteconnections.com and there's a contact button. And I receive all of the email inquiries that come my way and respond to everybody, whether it's students looking for guidance or entrepreneurs or job opportunities.

Zachary Cartwright [00:22:59]:
And finally, I also noticed that you're a certified culinary scientist. What exactly is that? What does that mean?

Rachel Zemser [00:23:06]:
So lots of organizations in the food world have certifications that are connected to that organization, and the IFT has one. You can be a certified food scientist and the RCA Research Chef association, as they're designated accreditations where you can be a certified culinary scientist or you can be a certified research chef. It basically means that you have skills and years of experience in culinary arts and or food science. In my case, I was more heavy on the food science, less on the culinary arts, but a research chef might be more heavy on the chef and lighter on the food science.

Zachary Cartwright [00:23:48]:
But.

Rachel Zemser [00:23:48]:
But depending on the ratio of food science to culinary arts, experience will dictate whether that person can qualify to take the exam to a research chef or a certified foodist. And once you get the years of experience you have hit that criteria, you then have the opportunity to take the exam and become certified. And it's something that you can put after your name on LinkedIn. And people know if they're familiar with the RCA or with the IFT that you are, that you are a certified scientist who has done their time in the trenches. And you've been recognized by two major organizations that you know are the organizations designated to the people in, in the field.

Zachary Cartwright [00:24:33]:
And switching gears a little bit, Rachel, what music recommendation did you bring with you today?

Rachel Zemser [00:24:38]:
I brought the song Strange because that was the song that was playing recently in an episode of a show called the Bear, which was about a chef in Chicago going through his life and his drama. And I think that just the show reminded me of my time when I was doing work in the culinary trenches, working nights and Working with, under a lot of pressure and hearing that song and watching that show made me think of, of those times.

Zachary Cartwright [00:25:13]:
And of course, to just kind of round things out. I always ask my guests for a mantra or a quote or a saying that you might use to motivate yourself or bring some inspiration. Did you bring a mantra with you today? And if so, what is it?

Rachel Zemser [00:25:25]:
So to motivate, I have to be a very. I have to be the kind of person that pushes myself to get things done because I don't have a boss, it's only me. And usually to motivate myself to get tasks done, I make a list of all the tasks and work that I have to do and I try to tackle the items starting with the one that I want to do the least first, get it out of the, then move on to the easier, fun stuff. And you know, when it comes to work, life balance. I used to have no boundaries. I used to just work all day, work all night until the job was done. But since I had my son in 2018, I definitely try to prioritize my time with him and he motivates me to put my projects down at the end of the day and on the weekends and spend time with him. And you know, I, I try to, I try to just make him a priority now, now that I have him.

Rachel Zemser [00:26:21]:
But in the past it was just non stop work. But that changes once you, you have a. A wee lad.

Zachary Cartwright [00:26:28]:
Well, Rachel, thank you so much. Thanks for your science, your, your music recommendation, your mantra. I'm always so impressed with all the things that you can consult on and I'm glad we could touch on a few things. But I know that's just the tip of the iceberg on all these different things that you do. So thank you so much for being here today and coming onto our show.

Rachel Zemser [00:26:46]:
Great to be on. Thank you for having me.

Zachary Cartwright [00:26:51]:
Today's episode is sponsored by AQUALAB. In this episode, we discussed what it takes to be a food science consultant. Did you know that AQUALAB also provides food science consulting and as it relates to complete moisture control in all stages of the food production process? Whether you work in product development, sensory evaluation, ingredient verification, production optimization, quality assurance, or shelf life and packaging, AQUALAB has technologies, sensors and software that can give you the insights you need to maintain the quality and safety that your consumers expect. A link to learn more about AQUALAB's testing and consulting services will be in the podcast description this week. The song that I can't get out of my head is called Liftoff by Adastra and Bethany Augustine. This song is an electrifying blend of ethereal vocals and pulsating electronic beats that takes listeners on a journey beyond the ordinary. Augustine's voice glides effortlessly over Adastra's atmospheric synths, creating a feeling of weightlessness and perfectly matching the track's spin spacebound theme. The song builds gradually, layering intricate harmonies with a steady, uplifting bassline that crescendos into a powerful drop.

Zachary Cartwright [00:28:08]:
The synergy between the melody and the rhythm invites listeners to immerse themselves as if taking off into the boundless, vibrant universe. Liftoff is a perfect anthem for anyone in need of an uplifting escape, and a link to the song will be in the podcast Description to round out this episode, I will be offering another mantra. This episode's mantra is Failure is just another way to learn how to do something right. I'm going to repeat this three times and maybe you can say this to yourself, or maybe even out loud. Here we go. Failure is just another way to learn how to do something right. Failure is just another way to learn how to do something right. Failure is just another way to learn how to do something right.

Zachary Cartwright [00:29:00]:
As you keep this mantra in mind, I also challenge you to think about what the fear of failure has stopped you from doing, and what is one step you could take today to begin overcoming that fear. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of My Name is Zachary Cartwright, and this has been another episode of the Drip, brought to you by AQUALAB. Stay hydrated and see you next time.