Note: AI-Generated transcript

Zachary Cartwright [00:00:06]:
Have you ever wondered how the science behind feeding farm animals and managing their health can dramatically impact the safety and quality of the food on your plate? Welcome to The Drip, where we keep your mind hydrated with some science, music and a mantra. I'm your host, Zachary Cartwright, lead food scientist at AQUALAB by Addium. In today's episode, we'll be discussing innovative strategies and practices that ensure the integrity and safety of food products from farm to table. My guest is Marcus Washington, who's the co founder of FSQA Help, located in Oklahoma. Hi, Marcus. Welcome to the show. Thanks for being here today. Yeah, thanks for having me, Marcus, I know you work with a lot of emerging brands, and I'm wondering, what are some of the main food safety and quality issues you see for these types of companies?

Marcus Washington [00:00:57]:
Personally, I think the biggest issues for smaller companies is maybe not an understanding of the regulations or what it takes to be compliant with certain things. So I think for a lot of smaller companies, typically when you see companies under 100 people, maybe 50 people, the challenges that they have is they may not have somebody who is knowledgeable about the regulations or about food safety that works there. So I've worked at a few plants where, you know, they didn't have a full time food safety person, or maybe their full time food safety person kind of was just promoted from, like, the floor, and then they made their way up to food safety, and then now they understand the process and how the product is created, but they don't understand the regulations or third party accreditation or what they need to be successful because they've just kind of been promoted through the ranks. And so that can be a tough position to put somebody in, especially if you don't have a food safety plan built. So I think that with a lot of small companies, it's really just the lack of understanding when it comes to regulations. What do I need to do to be compliant? There's also kind of the thought process that now people are pushing more for third party accreditation, which is fine, but I think that smaller brands should take baby steps. First, try to become compliant with the FDA or USDA regulations, and then you can move on to third party certification rather than trying to do it all at once.

Zachary Cartwright [00:02:32]:
And what else do you recommend for these emerging brands? Is there anything else that they can do to set themselves up for success earlier on as they start to get established and they're excited that they have a new product, what should they be doing early in their process?

Marcus Washington [00:02:45]:
Yeah, I think early on you should look at the local state regulations, certain states. So in Oklahoma, they have the Food Freedom act, where if you're under, I believe, $50,000 a year, you don't have to be inspected by the state. You're basically exempt from any regulation. So things like that can help small businesses kind of get off their feet, work on developing a plan while they're still making product and bringing in revenue. While you're doing that, you should be cognizant of what does it take to ship my product interstate as well? Because if you are in USD and also understanding whether your product is regulated by the FDA or the USDA is important, too. So FDA covers a lot of things like by working with a small tortilla company or like pet food, things like that. But then USDA is going to cover like, you know, your meat, so your beef, chicken, all poultry, things like that. So really understanding what your operation is, who it's regulated by, and then you can look to find the correct regulations to follow.

Zachary Cartwright [00:03:50]:
And do you only work with brands in Oklahoma? Or if somebody is listening in California or New Mexico to this podcast, can they reach out for help as well?

Marcus Washington [00:03:58]:
Yeah, we work with brands from all kinds of states and regions. We work with a company now that's based out of Texas, and then we also are working with a company, I believe, that's based out of New York. We have worked with brands that are based in Oklahoma, but we can really work with anybody. I think our main focus has been the southwest and southeast because that's kind of most similar to Oklahoma as far as, like, we specialize with beef, poultry, pet food, and now we've done some stuff with like a tortilla company, which has been really interesting. So we can cover a wide range of states, just depends on the type of operation. And we really had success with customers that are regulated by the FDA.

Zachary Cartwright [00:04:42]:
That kind of leads me to my next question. I was going to ask, you know, the types of products that you've worked with. So you mentioned beef and tortillas. Are, are you mainly focusing on shelf stable products? Are you open to really any types of food products?

Marcus Washington [00:04:54]:
Yeah, really, it's been any type of food products. Honestly, I think at this stage, we've been trying to get as much experience as possible. So we've worked with, like I said, the tortilla company, beef, pet food, animal feed, and then candy as well. Before I started doing consulting, I actually did a graduate project that had to do with seafood, too. So just kind of a diverse skillset that we bring. And if we're not familiar with the regulation, we can always find out where to find it, and that's where our expertise comes into play. Because I think decoding the regulate, like finding the regulations is easy, but the hard part is kind of decoding. What does each CFR mean when it comes to the FDA? And translating that into plain English and then, you know, you may have your interpretation, but then the FDA may have a separate interpretation.

Marcus Washington [00:05:48]:
So that's where our expertise comes in. An example of that is when I worked for a pet food company, we had a question, was catfish food, is it classified as animal feed or is it classified as pet food? So the reason for that question was catfish food is fed as. So it's similar to like a cattle cube or a horse feed, but it's ran on the same equipment as pet food. So in the event of a recall, the FDA actually treated it like it was pet food because pet food is essentially zero tolerance for salmonella, whereas animal feed is not zero tolerance for salmonella, it's zero tolerance for salmonella that causes disease in animals. So that was kind of one of those situations where a consultant can kind of walk you through those regulations and help you decode them, because the interpretation is going to be different from what the words may say in practice. It looks a little bit different. And I think that's something that brands struggle with as well, is interpreting the regulations.

Zachary Cartwright [00:06:58]:
Yeah, I can definitely see how having a consultant in some of these situations would be super helpful. So thanks for that example. I also noticed that you manage a small farm and im wondering how that impacts your commitment to food safety and nutrition and the things that you work on.

Marcus Washington [00:07:14]:
Yeah, I think for me its been really an interesting experience. Its taught me. So Ive worked in the processing facilities, Ive worked in sales, and I think working in agriculture directly has helped me experience each part of the value chain. So Ive had the experience in the processing facilities. Ive worked at, you know, retail, like at a restaurant, things like that. But then now working as a farmer has given me a diverse perspective. So I think for the commitment to food safety, it's, you know, making sure the animals have access to water at all times, making sure they have fresh water as well, making sure that you're feeding them adequate amounts of hay, making sure they're grazing, also making sure they have the right amount of land to graze on. Right now we're actually in the process of building a fence because we purchased a few acres, but it's not all fenced off.

Marcus Washington [00:08:08]:
So now we're having to fence it off. So they can have more land to graze sustainably and not kind of be like confined altogether with each other. So really just emphasizing, and I think water is one of the biggest things because we actually had recently we had one of an animal die because she had broke her leg and we were going to take her to the vet, but she couldn't get to the water, and we didn't know that until she had passed away. So that was something where water is really important for animals because they can only survive for so long without it. And so that's how it's kind of helped me understand and help me have a different focus as well, because if the animals are safe, then you can also ensure that the product is safer as well.

Zachary Cartwright [00:08:55]:
I was hoping you could maybe dive a little bit deeper into the science behind feeding farm animals and managing their health. And how does this really impact the safety and the quality of the food that ends up on our plates?

Marcus Washington [00:09:07]:
Yeah, it's really, with certain animals, like cattle, for instance, with E. Coli, a lot of the times it may show up asymptomatic. So that's something that's kind of hard to track. And then the really biggest thing is with our animals specifically, so we have to de worm them to make sure they don't have any parasites which can get translated into food. So for the first month, we fed our goats deworming. They had medicated feed, and then we dewormed our donkeys as well, because also, too, their feces can then contaminate our other animals that are there with parasites, too. And so then I, deworming was one of the biggest ones. Making sure they're vaccinated is another big thing, as well as kind of herd management.

Marcus Washington [00:09:55]:
So if one animal is sick, segregating it from another animal, so that way those animals don't get sick, because then that, of course, will show up in food. So our goats are dairy goats. And so that's something else we've had to take into consideration, is when we're feeding them medicated feed, we can only feed them a certain type of feed because we don't want that to get into the food, the medication that they're taking. So the science behind that, we had to really look up. I mean, there's, there's some lists that some veterinarians have of different dewormers that you can feed to your animals and the effects of them. And so with that being said, we looked it up and did some research, and we found a dewormer that we could feed to our dairy goats. That wouldn't pass the medication into the milk that would be toxic to humans. So that's essentially how we went about that.

Zachary Cartwright [00:10:48]:
And is there anything you think we could be doing on a national scale or a global scale? How can we do a better job of managing the health of farm animals everywhere? You know, based on your experience on a small farm, how can we translate that to some of the bigger operations in our country or around the world?

Marcus Washington [00:11:05]:
Yeah, I think it just really takes a proactive approach. A lot of the things I've seen have been to make sure that you're checking in on your animals. I think a lot of this stuff is being done already. I think that pre harvest food safety is really important. And so in that, again, what I've learned and experience is segregating animals that are sick, making sure you have adequate space and room for animals, because the thing about it is, and it really depends on the animal, too, because goats, like we have, are a herd species, so they're going to kind of be together no matter what. And it's really if one goat goes somewhere, then you're probably going to see two or three more goats go in that same direction. So essentially, you're going to have to manage the herd holistically. And then whenever there's individual events where an animal is sick or where an animal gets hurt, you're going to have to take care of that animal specifically and make sure that you're providing them what they need at that time.

Marcus Washington [00:12:08]:
I think that a lot of that stuff is being done already, but I do think where the disconnect is is there's not as much maybe biosecurity measures when it comes to the farm or when it comes to things prior to processing. So when I was at OSU, we went to the swine facility, and they basically require people to shower into the facility, and you have to shower out of the facility. And once a pig leaves the facility, the pig can't come back due to the threat of there being viruses that they're recontaminating and getting the other pigs sick. So things like that are really good for larger operations. It's a little bit harder to implement certain biosecurity measures when you're a smaller scale farmer because you may not have the money, but doing things like washing your hands, taking showers, making sure that you're practicing proper hygiene will keep your animals safe, and it will also help keep yourself safe, because that way you're not getting your friends and family sick from the bacteria that may be present on your animals.

Zachary Cartwright [00:13:18]:
Marcus, one of the things that stood out to me about you is that you're a food scientist, but you also have this passion for animals. And I'm wondering how other food scientists like you, who have this passion for animals, how can they get more involved in, maybe better understand this complete process from farm to table?

Marcus Washington [00:13:34]:
What.

Zachary Cartwright [00:13:35]:
What do you recommend for them?

Marcus Washington [00:13:36]:
Visit a farm. When I was in grad school, I did a lot of those farm visits as a part of my class. I was very fortunate. So OSU really has an emphasis on not just the classroom, but we also got to see things in practice. So when I took a pre harvest food safety class, and basically, for those who may not be familiar, when I say pre harvest food safety, it's pretty much like, either growers or, like, basically the farm or the ranch. And so when I took the pre harvest food safety class, we went to, like, farms that had goats, that had cattle, that had pigs, that had growing operations. And we really got to see how do they control food safety in that context. And then how can you, as a food safety specialist or a food safety professional, how can you implement those things in your operation and what it comes to? If you're working in production, it may come to, like, a supplier verification program, making sure you're getting your ingredients and receiving them from a reputable source, or when you're working in, like, a grain elevator, or if you work for pet food company, making sure you're testing the wheat and things for mycotoxins.

Marcus Washington [00:14:53]:
So that's how that kind of pre harvest food safety can translate to someone who may not be actually on the farm. And I think when it comes to animals specifically, again, visiting the farm, becoming familiar with the farmers, building those relationships, and you can also volunteer and share your expertise in food safety at, like, an extension. So I don't know if other states have extension the way we have it, but basically, we have county offices, and then we also have, like, a four h program. And you can, you know, lend your expertise to those programs to help out ranchers and farmers and talk about food safety and then other risks that may be present on the farm using your knowledge and your background so you can kind of help support people in that way.

Zachary Cartwright [00:15:42]:
I also noticed that in addition to farming and consulting, you also have this brand for creating fruit bars. What can you tell us about just for.

Marcus Washington [00:15:50]:
Yeah, so just for. We started it in originally. It was 2019. It wasn't a business yet, but we did the Oklahoma State University food innovation competition. And essentially, this was right before COVID We had a plan to make a fruit bar. That was, at the time, I think it was three ingredients or less. And so we had this idea. We placed fourth, I believe, because we made it to the finals.

Marcus Washington [00:16:24]:
Well, then after we made it to the finals, we didn't place in the top three, which were awarded prizes. But then we thought, okay, let's actually turn this into a real business. So we became a business in the 2020, but then that's when Covid hit. It was January 2020. And then right after that, we had Covid hit, and then we had some family members get sick, so we kind of paused it. So then I started taking MBA classes at Oklahoma City University in August of 2022. So I had a classmate who he actually worked for their campus dining, and he was a really nice guy. He actually ended up moving out to Seattle recently to work for the same company.

Marcus Washington [00:17:07]:
But while he was in Oklahoma, he said, hey, because we still have the website up, he said, hey, I really like the idea for your fruit bars. Can you make these still? And we said, yeah, of course we can. So then we kind of got to make the bars. And then we had some events at Oklahoma City University, really get our name out there. So we had to learn a lot about packaging. That was probably the biggest thing was packaging, was getting an attractive looking package. We were able to partner with Oklahoma City to build a website, and they basically provide financial support for small businesses. So many people may not know about this, but they provide, if you are qualified, I think it's ten to $15,000 worth of financial support for small businesses.

Marcus Washington [00:17:56]:
So that comes into the form of services. So it can be marketing, it can be building a website, building a CRM, consulting, things like that. And so we were able to really build out a website. And then after that, we got into Chesapeake in Oklahoma City, and then we got into Integris Hospital as well in Oklahoma City, a few of their locations. So that was kind of the story about how just four started and we took a break in between. But then the Oklahoma City University really helped and generate business for us and make it to where we can actually get into other stores as well.

Zachary Cartwright [00:18:37]:
I really like the name. I think it's really catchy, and it makes a lot of sense that you can work with emerging brands because you've been an emerging brand and you've been able to look for some of these resources and point people in the right direction. So thanks for sharing that. As you know, Marcus, I like to ask my guests for a music recommendation. What artist or song or genre have you brought with you today?

Marcus Washington [00:18:59]:
For me, I've been listening to. So when I initially, at first question, when you had asked me, I was listening to a lot of Kendrick Lamar, and they had, you know, the album that just dropped, but now they kind of had a lot of stuff happen since then. You know, they had a lot of the records that have gone back and forth, so I've been listening to a lot of that, but then I actually started listening to a lot of r and B. My wife and I, we went to the Nicki Minaj concert on Monday, and they had Monica on r and B singer as a special guest, and that was really fun to see. So, really been listening to, you know, a lot of r and B hip hop now. Started listening to Nicki Minaj. Really didn't listen. I listened to her before I knew a lot of her songs.

Marcus Washington [00:19:47]:
But her new album is pretty good. I like it. So, you know, that's been what I've been listening to so far.

Zachary Cartwright [00:19:53]:
That's awesome. Definitely going to a Nikki show is on my bucket list, so that's cool that you guys got to go. And did you bring a mantra with you today? This is a saying or a quote, something that keeps you motivated or brings balance to your life so that you can be successful at all of these different endeavors that you have. What do you use for that?

Marcus Washington [00:20:13]:
Yeah, for me, I really try not to dwell on the past. I don't have a specific saying, but the way I look back at life is I try to make the best decision with the information I have. And I guess the mantra is kind of like, life is like poker. So for those who don't play poker, like, when you're playing, you don't know your opponent's cards, but you know your cards, and you have to make basically an educated guess based off of how much your opponent has. Bethe how your opponent is. You know, the facial expressions they're making, the movements they're making, the cards that are on the board, and then you have to make a decision based on that. And there's times when you're playing poker where you can make the right decision and it may not work out, or you can make the wrong decision, and maybe it does work out, and you get lucky. And that's kind of how life is, where you can make the right decision with all the information that you have, and it can just be not work out.

Marcus Washington [00:21:13]:
You may make the wrong decision, and you may get lucky, and it may work out. So there's just times where it's all about balance, you know, try not to beat yourself up on decisions that you made, because you could have very well made the best decision, and it just could not have worked out at that time. And then there's also times where we make decisions that may not be the best, but they end up working out, and you just have to realize that that's just how life is. And I think that's something I've been working on trying to understand better, is because I tend to dwell on the past and look back and say, I wish I would have done this or that, but I also have to think to myself, you know, at the time, that was the best decision I could have made, giving the information I had. And if I would have made a different decision, I don't know what the outcome would be. So I can't necessarily say I should have made a different decision.

Zachary Cartwright [00:22:02]:
That's a great analogy, and I think that we all do that. We can all dwell in the past at times, but, uh, thank you for sharing that. I think it's really helpful to, to our listeners, and thank you overall for being on the show. I know we, uh, were trying to get your wife to join as well, and she's worked a lot of on these projects with you, but it seems like you guys are such a good, positive force and in your community and working all on all of these different things, and I'm excited to see you guys grow and succeed at these things that you're working on.

Marcus Washington [00:22:31]:
Yeah, thank you. We really appreciate it, and we're really trying to make sure that we have an impact on, you know, the local Oklahoma City metro and the state of Oklahoma in general.

Zachary Cartwright [00:22:41]:
Well, thanks so much, Marcus.

Marcus Washington [00:22:43]:
Alrighty. Thank you.

Zachary Cartwright [00:22:47]:
Today's episode is sponsored by AQUALAB. In this episode, we discussed some of the food safety and quality issues that emerging brands have to face. Did you know that in addition to working with just about all the top 100 producers of shelf stable foods, AQUALAB also works with companies of all sizes, especially emerging brands that want to become household names. We help small companies get the solutions they need to act like big companies in order to prevent recalls and damage their reputations. A link to some of my favorite customer stories will be in the podcast description.

Marcus Washington [00:23:24]:
What's up? This is Pico the Gallo. I'm a house and techno producer out of Pullman, Washington. My track energy is special to me because it's the first release with original vocals and lyrics, as well as the first release I've done with my friend and roommate, Grant Ekdal. You can find more of my stuff@soundcloud.com. pico the Gaia hope you enjoyed.

Zachary Cartwright [00:24:22]:
Finally, to round out this episode, I'll be offering another mantra. This is a word, a syllable, a phrase that you can repeat to yourself to feel calm, motivate yourself, or express something you believe in. This episode's mantra is my possibilities are endless. I'm going to repeat this three times and maybe you, the listener, can say this to yourself or maybe even say it out loud. Here we go. My possibilities are endless. My possibilities are endless. My possibilities are endless.

Zachary Cartwright [00:25:01]:
As you keep this mantra in mind, I also challenge you to think about what you would do this year if anything were possible, and how can you make steps towards those possibilities? Thank you so much for listening to this episode. My name is Zachary Cartwright and this has been another episode of The Drip brought to you by AQUALAB. Stay hydrated and see you next time.