AI Generated

WIF Arboreal Stevia
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[00:00:00] Zachary Cartwright: I'm Zachary Cartwright. This is Water and Food. Today my guest is Suresh Chander, who's the r and d lead at Arboreal Stevia. He's here today to discuss what Stevia is, some of the misconceptions about it and how Stevia is used in the food industry. He also discusses some of the advantages and disadvantages of using this sugar substitute.

[00:00:21] Zachary Cartwright: Let's hear what Sir has to say on this episode of water in. All right. Hey, Suresh, welcome to Water and Food. Thank you for being here today. I know we've been talking [00:00:30] about having you on for a long time, so I'm happy that we can finally get together.

[00:00:33] Suresh Chander: Thanks Zach. Thanks for inviting me to this podcast and I'm sure it's going to be in very interesting discussion where we are going to talk more about Stevie today.

[00:00:43] Zachary Cartwright: And I appreciate you being here. I know it's quite a big time difference. I believe it's 8:00 PM there and 9:30 AM of where you're at. So, good morning. And I just want to start off by asking you, what is Stevia? What, why are you here today to talk about this product? [00:01:00]

[00:01:00] Suresh Chander: right. So, I represent Arboreal by innovation.

[00:01:03] Suresh Chander: So, so we are a Stevia manufacturing company, and so I'm interested in educating people more about Stevia, right? So TBI is actually a high intensity natural sweetener, which is actually extracted from Stevia leaves, right? The Stevia leaves comes from a plant known as Stevia Bat, which is actually a native tour native to South America.

[00:01:25] Suresh Chander: So it is completely zero calorie, clean label and a very sustainable sweetener, [00:01:30] right? So I represent India, right? So India is a diabetic capital. So India is a, if India is a typical case study where, you know how junk foods, lifestyle based disorders can be life-threatening one, right? So that's, we are actually sitting.

[00:01:48] Suresh Chander: on the capital of diabetes. That's where it makes Stevia more relevant and my company more relevant to offer such kind of sugar re reduced product and local products, particularly in India. [00:02:00] And when you

[00:02:01] Zachary Cartwright: first reached out and we first started talking about doing this podcast, you mentioned that there are some misconceptions about Stevia out there.

[00:02:08] Zachary Cartwright: What are some of those misconceptions?

[00:02:10] Suresh Chander: So when it comes to stevia, people often think that like any other ingredient, more pure the ingredient. It's always better. Right. But actually, to be frank, there is not much correlation between the purity of the extract and the taste performance in a particular recipe.

[00:02:26] Suresh Chander: . Right? So Stevia extracts behave more like a flavor than [00:02:30] sweetener. right. Different tbm glycosides present in Stevia intra extracts, they interact a bit differently and according to the target food metrics. And unique flavors, they work bit differently. So, for example there is a standard pure REI 60 percentage extract, right?

[00:02:48] Suresh Chander: It also contains other molecules beyond re site A it also contains T site and other components like web C or web B, right? So at what, what happens is that [00:03:00] works very good for, citrus based applications. . Right. But on the other hand for ketchup, right, REE 80 works. So it's not always that just the pure extracts like REE 99 works really well for beverages or certain applications.

[00:03:17] Suresh Chander: So that's one of the biggest misconceptions I wanted to actually address. And the second important, Thing is many people think Stevia is actually very expensive. [00:03:30] So, I would say the answer is yes. And a no right? So if you, on a kg basis Stevia is somewhere around, somewhere ranks between $50 to, it, it ranges up to two 50 to $300.

[00:03:43] Suresh Chander: But what happens is the concentration of Ste v r in the final product, it's like relatively less. You are going to use somewhere between 0.02 to zero point lesser than 0.05 percentage in many applications. right? So in some, in certain cases, [00:04:00] Stevia can also offer a cost reduction, right? When I say it is more expensive, yes.

[00:04:07] Suresh Chander: Stevia is a naturally derived product, right? So we have to extract it from the Stevia leaves. So comparing to other artificial sweeteners like aspartame and sura lows which are much more cheaper to synthesize. T takes a little bit of a backseat over there, right? when you compare to the current artificial sweeteners out there, because that's how, industry people compare in terms of cost, right?

[00:04:29] Suresh Chander: [00:04:30] So stevia is not always expensive. It depends it depends on the use case, right? And what customer wants.

[00:04:36] Zachary Cartwright: And you're working for a company that is producing Stevia. Why don't you tell me a little bit about your company and where you're located and how long you've been in business.

[00:04:45] Suresh Chander: Right. So, I work for I work for Arboreal BioInnovation. So Arboreal is a global ingredient solutions company, right? So Abo was actually founded in 2015 by S Swati pane. So she's an I 80 [00:05:00] graduate and an Imperial College London graduate. And the other co-founder is Manish Johan.

[00:05:05] Suresh Chander: So he's also from London Business School. And he also completed his bachelor's from Biani, another reputed institute from India. Right. Ever since we have started, we have a hundred percentage focused on developing a vertically integrated St. V. Manufacturing company, right? . So that's where Arboreal takes a very unique approach where it actually curates and [00:05:30] controls every step of Stevia value chain, right?

[00:05:33] Suresh Chander: From cultivation of stevia, saplings to the extraction process of the suite components, and also to develop readymade solutions and with an affordable cost at the same time. Data performance, right? . And to add more about it, you, we also have a full-fledged application center global application center situated in northern part of India, which is Lano.

[00:05:56] Suresh Chander: And then we also have an excellent center in Chennai, which is just [00:06:00] dedicated only for developing locality products, particularly based outta Stevia. So, We have been able to make Stevia work and we also have been able to customize Stevia solutions where you know where many other players were not able to do so in the past three months, we have worked close to, with close to almost 55 plus brands, and we have helped them launch their product with our Stevia and [00:06:30] with through our dedicated formulations program.

[00:06:33] Zachary Cartwright: And in your role there shish, you're an r and d lead is that correct? What do you do in your specific role and how did you end up there? At what was your journey to ending up with arb? Stevia? So,

[00:06:45] Suresh Chander: That's actually an very interesting discussion to have. So, basically I graduated from university of Health, Finland, right?

[00:06:53] Suresh Chander: , so. So it was it was an very much an often awakening moment [00:07:00] during my Masters. So where I got exposed to new technologies and new age ingredients which were, which unfortunately I didn't get during my bachelor's, right? because I'm from a biotechnology background, so from biotech to a food tech it's a big transition, right?

[00:07:16] Suresh Chander: So, From there onwards, I decided that, I want to be in the functional ingredient space. So that was a starting point. . So then I had to return back to India and I chose an opportunity in product development. [00:07:30] Right. So during my masters only, so I was very much sure that I want to be in product development and applications particularly in product innovations.

[00:07:40] Suresh Chander: Right. So that was the st. That was the start. When I came back to India the new age companies were like less than number back in 2014. Right? So, then the opportunities were also pretty much less comparing to other countries, right? Because r and d is something that is r and d. Drive has been much more [00:08:00] better in the last 10 years.

[00:08:01] Suresh Chander: So then that's where like I chose an opportunity in r and d. Then I was actually continuously looking for this new age companies and companies who are creating actually functional ingredients. . So that's where I stumbled upon Arboreal and I joined Arboreal. Right? So I was one of the early members to join Arboreal because the first few years of Arboreal is all about farming and backward integr.

[00:08:27] Suresh Chander: So then they mastered the manufacturing [00:08:30] process I in on the verge of scaling up of the manufacturing process. That's where they realized, we need to have an customized formulation support. And that's where I came into picture, right? So we literally started from a small room where, we started with small Formulations and now we have now two dedicated centers for r and d.

[00:08:48] Suresh Chander: So it's been a big journey in the last four years. Right. So that's how I ended up in this space. And to be frank, the sweetness space as such it's a very gray area, right? [00:09:00] Not much of knowledge is out there. Yes. There are like lot of publications and academia is aware about and.

[00:09:08] Suresh Chander: Academy is already aware, but what happens is when it comes to industrial applications, more about, commercialization and it should be affordable, right? So that's where, Ariel comes into place and, we have developed appropriate and customized solutions for different mattresses.

[00:09:24] Suresh Chander: And

[00:09:24] Zachary Cartwright: you mentioned that you've worked with maybe 50 or more brands and types of products. Generally, [00:09:30] what types of products does your company work with? Where companies are replacing sugar with Stevia? What types of products are these?

[00:09:39] Suresh Chander: So gen generally two important queries comes to us right? First is, for hundred percentage sugar reduction. Next is they want to launch a local product. They want to have sugar. But they want to reduce the amount of sugar, maybe at 25 percentage level, or 50 50 percentage level. So these are the two important classifications of berries we receive.

[00:09:58] Suresh Chander: And with regards to product [00:10:00] range, we get a range of products, right? new protein powders. Protein beverages, plant-based applications chocolates, confectionary, the application is, we receive a very broad spectrum of requests. But obviously beverages are the lowest hanging fruit.

[00:10:16] Suresh Chander: And when it comes to cost, beverage manufacturers are much more adaptable. And that is the first thing. Any country and any extra direction happens from beverages, right? Because many other Product categories have [00:10:30] an cheaper sugar reduction. For example, in bakery, that is close to 30 to 40 percentage of sugar in, in chocolates, it's more than 30 to 40 percentage, right?

[00:10:38] Suresh Chander: . So here, these are like very sensitive categories. So, that the. The transition for sugar reduction in these categories are much more lesser than in beverages. So most of the queries in the initial days we received were from actually beverage companies. And you've

[00:10:56] Zachary Cartwright: mentioned some of the ad advantages of using stevia, you maybe cost [00:11:00] reduction or if you're trying to make a low calorie product and so on.

[00:11:03] Zachary Cartwright: What are some of the cons or maybe some of the difficulties with working with Stevia? An anything that comes to mind?

[00:11:10] Suresh Chander: So, I think this is also a very important part of addressing sugar reduction, right? So, Steve, any sugar reduction right, comes with lot of formulation challenges.

[00:11:21] Suresh Chander: . So first is like beyond sweetness. Sucrose actually adds like a lot of functional properties. To the foods and beverages, like, texture, mouth [00:11:30] feel, shelf life, so substituting these unique properties of sucrose has been always an challenging thing, right? As a product developer you have to possibly ask some of the key questions when it comes to reformulation or developing a new product, right?

[00:11:44] Suresh Chander: So I, I take this five question approach, right? Which category of food product it belongs to, and what are the regulatory challenges particularly associated with that particular food product. Second question is, [00:12:00] what are the physical and sensorial properties that is expected of the existing product or existed or expected to replace when when replacing or when you are substituting.

[00:12:14] Suresh Chander: Third important question is what is the percentage of calorie reduction you are actually expecting? Right? Fourth is like percentage of sucrose replacement you want to achieve. Sometimes, people also try to compensate. They will completely eliminate sugar and they will sub, sometimes they [00:12:30] replace it with fibers or other polys.

[00:12:33] Suresh Chander: So that's where, it's very important to understand how much percentage of sucrose you exactly want to reduce. The fifth important point is what are the parameters that will affect the core qualities of the product? Like color, texture and appearance, right? So when you're reducing sugar, like there are.

[00:12:51] Suresh Chander: A lot of things that actually gets compromised, right? So in order to compromise such qualities, you might have to get these qualities from [00:13:00] other sources. Sometimes you might have to use a color, sometimes you might have to use certain flavors to, match the same product, right? So these are the important challenges we actually address on a daily basis, right?

[00:13:14] Suresh Chander: But when it comes to using Ste v. Yes, t r naturally has an aftertaste and a l lingering effect. But the thing is, the question is whether the lingering or the aftertaste, is it [00:13:30] desirable or not, or is it pleasant or not? And how far we want to go. Right. So that's the point. It's so during early stage of stevia based products yes, there were like a lot of lingering and other things, but with this new eight solutions and whatever the there is a range of ingredients and toolbox that we have developed, that has been helped us to reduce or completely eliminate this aftertaste or the lingering that you actually get from Stevia.

[00:13:56] Suresh Chander: So, I mean, these are the important problems we [00:14:00] generally address. And sometimes people also think that the more concentration of stevia, the better the sweetness, right? So here is a very important part to address. So many people think that, sweeteners like, like sugar.

[00:14:16] Suresh Chander: When you increase the concentration, the sweetness increase linear. But when it comes to stevia beyond a certain point, you know the sweetness will not increase, right? . So you need to understand the threshold of the dosage and the [00:14:30] metrics, so then you have to optimize and customize those molecules accordingly.

[00:14:36] Zachary Cartwright: And I really like that five that five question approach. I really like that because if you're meeting with a client and trying to help them understand, maybe if they want to use Stevia, these are the things to keep in mind. And, it's showing that if they're using sucrose or table sugar, There's a lot of functionality there that I think a lot of people don't think about right away when they're trying to make a sugar substitution.

[00:14:57] Zachary Cartwright: So I really like that process and I'm sure it's really [00:15:00] helpful for when you meet with clients and help direct them to using your products. What are some of the challenges related to the production of Stevia itself? You mentioned your company, something that's really helped it to shine and maybe do better than other companies is the ability.

[00:15:17] Zachary Cartwright: To produce successfully, but what are some of those challenges that your team had to overcome in order to produce Stevia?

[00:15:25] Suresh Chander: Yeah, so, value creation is actually the bedrock of any business, [00:15:30] right? So, when it comes to addressing challenges, so we have channelized our efforts at three at three levels.

[00:15:39] Suresh Chander: First is the farming and supply chain, right? So when it comes to farming and supply chain. So that's where, as I initially mentioned, like we have spent our initial year perfecting the agreement, right? So that, that makes us a vertically integrated TBS supplier. And also we have control over every step of the [00:16:00] value chain, right?

[00:16:00] Suresh Chander: From the sourcing to the extraction, to the manufacturing of the final product. So this part of business is very important because it helps us to have a complete control over the product. And also, Many times due to some seasonal changes also in for many other companies, the production gets stuck or sometimes they might have to increase the cost.

[00:16:19] Suresh Chander: So this has helped us to have a control over the economics of the product as well. The second important challenge, many when it comes to [00:16:30] Stevia suppliers, is the formulation expertise, right? It's not just about the producing the final product and just selling. But many at times, Stevia needs to be customized according to the target product, right?

[00:16:44] Suresh Chander: Stevia is not a single molecule. It is actually a cocktail of more than 50 molecules, right? Based on the relative composition of the Stevia mixture the taste and the performance of the solution varies, right? So, good understanding of the molecules is very critical. So, this helps us [00:17:00] designing a very superior, yet an economical.

[00:17:04] Suresh Chander: The third is the core answer for your question, right? What are the major process challenges? So journey of the ingredient and how it gets converted into a final product is essentially a very important aspect. And it is very relevant to the current scenario where, people are talking about the sustainability and when customers are also very much interested in knowing how the ingredients are getting processed and how it is going to affect their final.

[00:17:29] Suresh Chander: After [00:17:30] consumption, right? So that's where like our preparatory extraction process, where we do not use much of hash chemicals and our optimized pro process also helps to have a better isolation of the molecule and better recovery, right? So, yes. So these are the three important areas we have actually.

[00:17:48] Suresh Chander: Added more value. And, that's where our science driven approach has helped us to get, better performance at each levels. .

[00:17:55] Zachary Cartwright: And do you ever run into any difficulties with production I know you're [00:18:00] probably doing some type of spray drying, what does your spray dry process look like and are you measuring moisture or water activity during that spray drying process to hit a certain target for your product?

[00:18:13] Suresh Chander: Yeah. Has so TBA involves an aqui extraction process, right? And after after removing all those impurities and, based on the target grid you wanted to manufacture, so you know, the concentration of the Aquis solution happens, and then the final product is actually [00:18:30] spray, right?

[00:18:30] Suresh Chander: The challenge here. Every time the first level of challenge you will face in, in optimizing the cocktail of T mixture, right? So, we know that, let's say we are going to produce Revenue Site 60. So the revenue site 60 means 60 percentage of T VX stack will be composed by revenue site A.

[00:18:51] Suresh Chander: The remaining 40 percentage might be. Cocktail of different molecules like stets and other ste vaco molecules, [00:19:00] right? This is the first level challenge. The second level challenge is optimizing the musher. So whenever you are going to straight, right? So the moisture is going to certainly.

[00:19:12] Suresh Chander: Differ, right? So let's say even if there is one percentage more moisture also, that is going to actually affect the sweetness, and certainly that is, that will also be affecting the final concentration of the certain molecules, right? So that's where, moisture contour is very very critical component in [00:19:30] manufacturing of TFS Tbx extract.

[00:19:32] Zachary Cartwright: And when you take a moisture measurement how does your team do it? Do, are you using a, like a loss on drying method or a titration or how do you get that moisture number?

[00:19:43] Suresh Chander: So, so we basically do a two step approach. So we basically do a loss on drying method. And we also adapt a titration method.

[00:19:50] Suresh Chander: And what we also do is we also collaborate with, Third party laboratory to validate all our results. . So by this way, so, our [00:20:00] results are more, like, more robust when it comes to the moisture management. I see.

[00:20:05] Zachary Cartwright: And the reason that I'm asking about this, sir, is because I see a lot of people in your industry who try to use a moisture content measurement to control moisture and prevent clumping or just to really understand your product and hit a consistent target.

[00:20:19] Zachary Cartwright: And this actually relates to a webinar that we recently released here where we talk about substituting sugar. We look at some of the pros and cons of different alternatives and including [00:20:30] Stevia, and we talk about how they relate not only to moisture, but also to water activity. And then also a lot about the functionality that you mentioned.

[00:20:38] Zachary Cartwright: If you're having to reduce the amount of sugar, then you do have to think about these other things. Do you still need browning to occur or are you still going? A certain mouth feel or what about shelf life and so on. And so I just wanted to take a moment and recommend that webinar.

[00:20:53] Zachary Cartwright: It's something that we can add a link to this podcast too because I do think that you, even at your company and [00:21:00] people in your industry may really benefit from that webinar. So it just happened to be perfect timing that your subject manner fell in line with other things that we've been working on.

[00:21:09] Zachary Cartwright: So I just wanted to make sure

[00:21:10] Suresh Chander: to mention. Absolutely. That is actually spot on Zach. So that's what I was actually talking about in the first part of the discussion, right? These things are like very relevant when it comes to, when it's com when it comes to sugar, right? So at eat each moisture level and for at each temperature.

[00:21:27] Suresh Chander: So it, it exhibits different properties, [00:21:30] right? And the understanding of moisture versus sweet. And uh, particularly in, in the final product, the understanding has been fairly less, right? So, as I told, still, this is more in a gray area. So that's where, these kind of discussions, will prompt researchers and product developers to think in that line.

[00:21:49] Suresh Chander: And it gives a spotlight to that. But,

[00:21:53] Zachary Cartwright: And Saresh, what's next for you and what's next for your company? Maybe looking in into next year and down the road, [00:22:00] what are the, some of the things that you're looking forward to as your company grows?

[00:22:04] Suresh Chander: Right. So, Arboreal wants to shine as a functional ingredient company, right?

[00:22:11] Suresh Chander: So, so we have taken up more sustainable production processes and ingredients that we are currently in r and d pipeline. So you'll be, you'll, you guys will be getting more news in the coming days. But yeah, so we'll be extending our portfolio of ingredients that actually enhances.

[00:22:29] Suresh Chander: [00:22:30] Performance of the food and, performance of human nutrition. So we are actually working on that line. So, so this is a gist I'll be able to reveal at this part.

[00:22:39] Zachary Cartwright: And then finally we get a lot of other food scientists that listen to this podcast. If there's somebody out there listening who's working on a project and they're trying to reduce sugar or have a lower calorie version of a, of their product, and they're thinking about using Stevia, how can they get ahold of you or your company?

[00:22:55] Zachary Cartwright: What's the best way for them to collaborate with you?

[00:22:58] Suresh Chander: So, when it comes to [00:23:00] collaboration, like, we generally For example I'll share you a very classical example. So there was a new comp there was a company who wanted to launch a protein product where they wanted to incorporate Stevia.

[00:23:12] Suresh Chander: So where, where they have completed like, 50 percentage of their product development where, and they were stuck with the sweetener part particularly right. So, they were trying to use artificial sweetness, but you know, com management was not like okay with that. So that's where they approached us.

[00:23:26] Suresh Chander: So they usually, they, we requested for a [00:23:30] base of unsweetened sample. Right. And they kind of a control product. What, sometimes they have a benchmark, kind of this product or this level of sweetness they want to match. Right. So we generally have a two weeks to three weeks.

[00:23:43] Suresh Chander: Dedicated program when it comes to working for working with companies. We we agree with the timelines based on the other projects that is available. And within almost like one and a half weeks, we were able to turn back to the company with a very economical solution. And the product got launched within, [00:24:00] like, within next two months, right?

[00:24:02] Suresh Chander: So, that. We are when it comes to customized approach and when we are working with clients. So they can also reach us through me. So I'll drop by my email ID and and obviously they can also contact through our website. I'll be happy to put with our sales team.

[00:24:18] Suresh Chander: So yeah, we can see how we can work

[00:24:21] Zachary Cartwright: together. Well, perfect. Well, I just wanna thank you so much for your time, sir. I think we live in a pretty cool world where a food scientist in Washington State [00:24:30] can talk to a food scientist in in, in India, and we can collaborate and talk about the things that we work on and how they relate.

[00:24:36] Zachary Cartwright: So I, I hope this encourage others to also collaborate. And I look forward to seeing how your company grows and, maybe our paths will cross again in the. As your company continues to grow. So, I, again I thank you so much for your time and I think our listeners will really appreciate it as

[00:24:51] Suresh Chander: well.

[00:24:52] Suresh Chander: Thank you. Thank you so much, Zach. Actually, for invading for me for such a, such niche discussion, I would say, because, these kind of [00:25:00] insights are going to be very pro provocative and it's going to, instill a lot of scientific thoughts when it comes to moisture and how an ingredient and a particular parameter.

[00:25:10] Suresh Chander: Often when you see a certificate of analysis often people think that moisture or is as a small part, but you know, it's not actually the thing, right? So what is the most fundamental thing? And as a food scientist, when we have more understanding on how water works, right? I think as a food technologist or a food scientist, you we have underst.

[00:25:29] Suresh Chander: How [00:25:30] the world works, right? So I think that's where this podcast takes a very important role and thanks for this initiative,

[00:25:36] Zachary Cartwright: Zach. Yeah, you're welcome. And I look forward to talking to you again. Have a good one, Suresh.

[00:25:41] Suresh Chander: Have a great week ahead, Zach.

[00:25:43] Zachary Cartwright: I'm Zachary Cartwright. This is Water in Food.

[00:25:48] Zachary Cartwright: Find this podcast on Apple, iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.